I agree, but adding/removing 150 lbs of ballast isn't too difficult. (yes I know corner balance is an issue) Why not look at 2850 for turbos and 2750 for 16V cars. (a little self-serving, since I'm building a 16V car)

BTW, I have hit overboost protection at a DE in a stock 951 running a 3 inch exhaust and K&N cone filter.

Yes, both SP 3 and SC allow for non stock dme chips currently. Your earlier post said non stock dme's, which must remain stock for SP3 and SC.



With Stock or aftermarket chips, the DME and KLR units are going to get opened by CUp and PCA to make sure the klr unit is stock and the dme has all stock components, not just the chip. I would suggest if u plan to run different classes with different chips, a driver can buy another dme unit to allow swapping the dme with the 2nd option chip, so that thetabs stay in place.




Couple of thoughts. For drivers looking for the cheapest way to improve handling, I would suggest buying a well prepared Cup class car, we are talking really significant savings if dollars are a real concern. The Cup cars are another 300 lbs lighter then the recommended 2900 lbs for even better handling and braking. SC and GTS are, by their rulesets amd models allowed, much more expensive to race in -- expensive comes with the territory.

The other problem with dropping 951 weights is the impact on the lower HP models. If u take the turbo to 2900 lbs where does that take the 944S and 944s2 weight and is it possible for them to get to that weight in the cheapest way or possible or at all?

Proposed SC weights:
Combined Vehicle and Driver Minimum Weights for all models
Model Displ. PCA Class (Baseline) Min (lb)
944S -All 2.5L 2550
944S2 -All 2800
951 -All 2.5L 2900
951S -All 2.5L 3150
968 -All 3.0L 3000


Thanks for the input, helps vet the proposed changes.

I thought that the Super Cup formula for an S2 was 205 HP maximum and 2900 minimum weight.

Understood. But if we are going to a simplified set of rules for ease of understanding and enforcement, then we need to allow all currently allowed Prepared mods to be allowed for all cars.

Dave: Sorry for the confusion. I obviously meant Non-OEM chips. Since I am building an S2 based Car, I can live with 2800 lbs, since my current 2.7L car runs AT 2750 LBS. I don't know the solution, but 3150 lbs, makes a pretty sluggish handling Turbo S car according to Bob Hahnemann. It also means almost 400 lbs of ballast in his case.

I am in favor of whatever is easiest for everyone, both in terms of bringing compliant cars to the track and enforcing that it's fair.
Let's just go racing.

Appreciate Bob's situation. But, the class cant be everything for everyone. There is no such animal.

I would differ with your assessment about the driveability of the Turbos at 3150 (which is 100 lbs liter then the max currently). Just go back to the earlier days of the SC class when the TurboS cars where much heavier and the Crowell's and others were still turning astonishing times. The F class PCA 951S has been a very popular car to race and is required to be 3148 lbs with a 12.74 power to weight ratio. So just dont see where the rules being proposed for 2011 are really out of line.

And for anyone interested in bringing their NASA GTS car to run with us in SC, the dme chip and adding ballast are the least of the issues facing you to go back and forth, as GTS allows virtually unlimited mods to the engines while SC still requires essentially all stock engine parts.

The S2 currently has 3 prep levels:
944S2 All Stock E 2800 3.0L 205
944S2 All Prepared F 2900 3.0L 208
944S2 Club All Stock & Prepared 3000 3.0L 219

The new rules would consolidate these 3 cats into 1 for the S2.

HHMMMM.......... 944 Turbos run a maximum stock boost of around 11 psi with an overboost protection set around that level. Aftermarket chips will raise or in some cases eliminate the overboost protection set point and will raise the maximum boost pressure allowed by the boost control system (typically to around 14-15 psi).

So, if the class rules require stock boost settings, how does removing the boost limiter with an aftermarket chip improve class compliance?

It isn't that low Dave. I will check my shop manuals when I get home. I think the stock specified range on a stock Turbo S is a max of .75-.85 bar, or almost 12.5psi.

I have never hit the boost protection on track. Even in 30* temps when my boost gauge will go over 13psi. I've been tracking the same car and motor since 2002. Stock chips are fine even in 100* temps with pump gas. I question the agenda of anyone who says otherwise, no disrespect. Direct contridiction of my on track experience. I have a 3" open exhaust, no cat, stock air box.

We found the boost protection at IMA one time when we clamped off the WG signal line from the J-boot with some vice grips. It takes a bunch of boost more than stock to hit that limiter. We were testing for a leak and found it.