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| Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 http://forum.44cup.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=535 |
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| Author: | Director [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
The following rules changes are being planned for next year: • Remove the 924S, 944, and all 928’s from the list of eligible models. • Eliminate the SCCA Allowed Modifications and permit all cars to be prepared to PCA allowed modifications with no distinction between Stock and Prepared, including just one weight and power chart for all models. • Permit Stock and Prepared allowed modifications for all cars. • Require OEM DME chips for all models • All brake components and transmission gearing to be free. • Stock front fenders, doors, engine hood, headlamp covers can be replaced with identical parts in size and shape but made of non-stock materials. Basically these changes are intended to simply the rules and make them easier to understand, use and enforce. |
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| Author: | DrFranz [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
I like it! |
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| Author: | johntorg [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
Dave, Consider allowing non-stock DME, but stock KLR as does PCA SP3, The biggest gains in the turbo engine are from boost which is controlled by the KLR. Aftermarket DME chips provide better Air Fuel ratio control and some improved HP/Torque (at least I think that's the way it works). I am building an S2 engine based GTS2/3 and SuperCup car, so I don't have any personal skin in the Turbo game. Since we are only planning on 6 races for 2011, I am concerned that whatever I build can run at both NASA and PCA and the PCA 944Cup events with only minor changes. |
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| Author: | DrFranz [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
johntorg wrote: Dave, Consider allowing non-stock DME, but stock KLR as does PCA SP3, The biggest gains in the turbo engine are from boost which is controlled by the KLR. That would actually make a lot of sense. I know of Turbo guys that are convinced that they're legal because their DME is "sealed", yet it's their KLR that's trick. |
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| Author: | TurboPooch [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
Just as na FYI, One of the problems with running a stock DME chip is that if you open up the exhaust (larger pipes, low restriction muffler, cat delete, etc) is that the DME will go into overboost protection mode by cutting out the injectors with any sustained boost over 5 psi once it has been triggered. Only way to reset is to shut off the car and restart. The limit can be easily rasied and reprogrammed by burning a new DME chip but it will no longer be considered stock, even it it has the same maps. |
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| Author: | Director [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
johntorg wrote: Dave, Consider allowing non-stock DME, but stock KLR as does PCA SP3, The biggest gains in the turbo engine are from boost which is controlled by the KLR. Aftermarket DME chips provide better Air Fuel ratio control and some improved HP/Torque (at least I think that's the way it works). I am concerned that whatever I build can run at both NASA and PCA and the PCA 944Cup events with only minor changes. SP3 requires a stock DME. SP3 rules are the same as Super Cup rules, as PCA changes to reflect changes we make, so no conflict between the rule sets. SC has always required stock klr chip. Isnt chip replacement an easy swap in and out to go from one class to another? I have heard for quite some time from our SC drivers that we should require stock chips and sealed DMEs to minimize the ability of making use of illegal mods inside the engine. Now I am hearing that the DME chips really don't matter for power jumps, even in the Turbos. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4&start=0 . Where lies the truth? |
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| Author: | Director [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
TurboPooch wrote: Just as na FYI, One of the problems with running a stock DME chip is that if you open up the exhaust (larger pipes, low restriction muffler, cat delete, etc) is that the DME will go into overboost protection mode by cutting out the injectors with any sustained boost over 5 psi once it has been triggered. Only way to reset is to shut off the car and restart. The limit can be easily rasied and reprogrammed by burning a new DME chip but it will no longer be considered stock, even it it has the same maps. The very popular PCA Stock classes have required stock dme and klr chips for the 951's for years with no apparent adverse effects with the exhaust systems free to any mod. |
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| Author: | johntorg [ Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
The SP3 PCA rules seem to allow non-OEM DME chips and stock KLR. Here's a link (see Page 22) http://www.pca.org/portals/cr/2010_PCA_CR_Rules.pdf Anyone who has changed a chip on a Motronic ECU knows that the tabs on the cover only have a certain number of openings in them before they break. I don't think swapping a chip 3 or 4 times a season is a viable option, not to mention the enforcement issues. On a more general note. For SuperCup to regain its strength, it has be be made more inclusive to allow cars from other series to participate. I think the proposed rules are a good start (of course allowing for non-stock DME chips). The only other issue I have is the idea of running at a HP/weight of 13. While in the middle of the GTS3 range, few cars actually run at that HP/Weight. Using 13 as the magic number a 240 WHP turbo would have to run at 3130 lbs, which is way to heavy in my humble opinion. The easiest, cheapest way to improve handling and braking is to lower weight. Why not look at a target weight of 2900 lbs? At this weight, the same 240 WHP Turbo would have a HP/Weight ratio of 12.08 I will now get off the soap box and return to building my SuperCup car for next season. |
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| Author: | Garylimey [ Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
johntorg wrote: The SP3 PCA rules seem to allow non-OEM DME chips and stock KLR. Here's a link (see Page 22) http://www.pca.org/portals/cr/2010_PCA_CR_Rules.pdf Anyone who has changed a chip on a Motronic ECU knows that the tabs on the cover only have a certain number of openings in them before they break. I don't think swapping a chip 3 or 4 times a season is a viable option, not to mention the enforcement issues. On a more general note. For SuperCup to regain its strength, it has be be made more inclusive to allow cars from other series to participate. I think the proposed rules are a good start (of course allowing for non-stock DME chips). The only other issue I have is the idea of running at a HP/weight of 13. While in the middle of the GTS3 range, few cars actually run at that HP/Weight. Using 13 as the magic number a 240 WHP turbo would have to run at 3130 lbs, which is way to heavy in my humble opinion. The easiest, cheapest way to improve handling and braking is to lower weight. Why not look at a target weight of 2900 lbs? At this weight, the same 240 WHP Turbo would have a HP/Weight ratio of 12.08 I will now get off the soap box and return to building my SuperCup car for next season. 12 to 1 would definitely be more competitive in GTS3 but still a little off to be near the front when you think of a turbo running at 250whp at 2750lbs. |
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| Author: | MBuck951 [ Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
I like the idea of stock chips. That is the way I have always run. Never had significant issues hitting the overboost protection with all stock components in place (except exhaust). I have hit it before in testing though. If brakes and gearing are free now, then I guess we're all buying Big Reds and S2 R&P's. Don't like that. Would love to run more with the series, but if some are still going to beat the "turbos are cheating drum", then it makes it hard. Guilty by association and unable to be proven innocent seems to be somes M.O. |
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