Great result going to see John and working out what seems to be a great solution.
All that's left now is to get ready to go racing in the spring
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| Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 http://forum.44cup.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=535 |
Page 10 of 11 |
| Author: | Director [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
#69 wrote: Dave, what where his thoughts on manipulating the map outside the DME which I feel should be of concern. Karl Manipulating the map outside the DME requires what amounts to a mini dme installed outside the stock dme, which intercepts the signals from the stock sensors from the engine, recalibrates the signal and sends the revised signal to the stock dme. The shortcoming of this type of device for those with illegal intentions is that a visual inspection between the sensors and the stock dme make for a relatively simple detection. |
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| Author: | 9Four4 [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
Dave, I just wanted to let you know that your efforts should be applauded by all racers, especially since you could spend all this time to make a healthy Cup series grow even more. For me, although I plans to continue to run in PCA E stock class simply due to logistics, I hope that I may continue to stop over and say hello when I see your trailer in the paddock. Good luck Nader |
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| Author: | TurboPooch [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
I'm very glad to see that you got to spend some time with Mr. Behe. From the changes you have made to the rules for chips it sounds like you learned alot from him. I learned more in the one day I spent with him than all the reading I have done on message boards, manuals, guides, talking with other guys, etc. over the last 8 years of owning a 944 turbo and about how they work. We were both in agreement that the engineers at Porsche did a pretty good job of designing and building pretty good engine management systems with the technology they had at the time and designed it for durability and moderate performance. He should have had lots of data to present to you about the difficulty in tuning for specific criteria. As I mentioned in earlier posts, it's not as simple as one would think to get the maximum performance and still be legal on the turbo cars. I like the idea of certified chips and hope others will decide to join the series and strengthen the fields. |
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| Author: | Garylimey [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
Great result going to see John and working out what seems to be a great solution. All that's left now is to get ready to go racing in the spring .
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| Author: | MBuck951 [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
Interesting feedback Dave, thank you. We are still subject to the same hp/tq limits correct, stock chip or not? |
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| Author: | Director [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
MBuck951 wrote: Interesting feedback Dave, thank you. We are still subject to the same hp/tq limits correct, stock chip or not? That is correct, the power chart is the same for all . Interesing point made by Behe was that his experience in tuning cars has shown him that most aftermarket chips bought off the shelf do more to make a car run worse then better. When he first puts cars on the dyno for tuning he reverts back to the stock chip for a baseline and finds performance better, maybe not the best, but better then the off the shelf chip. The problem with the stock chip is that it contains multiple maps, the Turbo has 3, that can be used to dummy down the power as needed by adjusting timing and fuel. One map is the target. |
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| Author: | Director [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:25 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 | ||
prooutlaw wrote: In the Factory Workshop Manual ( you should have ) it says Boost pressure for 944 turbo is .75 bar + or - 10 % that is 10.878 psi + or - 10 % Section 21 page 10 so i dont know why somebody would tell you 8.82 psi Turbo S Engine type M 44.52 uses the same values And here is where it gets really interesting. When presented with the differences between the factory workshop manual boost specs ( see image) and those used by PCA club race for scrut testing, PCA has a good explanation. Prooutlaw and PCA are both correct. PCA is satisfied that an unmodified turbo S should not exceed 12.5 psi, and the earlier non-S should not exceed 9.5 psi. Based on factory figures from the "Little White Spec Books." PCA holds that the S definately has more boost. That's also based on their program's testing a lot of truely stock chips/motors over the years. Legal cars tested (all of which ran right up front, hence their selection for testing) measured a bit low compared to their standards. PCA has two testers, one in psi, the other in bar, depending on which scrutineering case. Above 3,000 rpm the boost of the non-S drops to its lower baseline. That's why they need to test the non-S at those higher RPMs. Those are the RPMs where cars are raced, not at 3,000. So the two really are two different boost maps. So basically, the workshop manual is testing at the max boost at 3000 RPM's while the PCA limits are being used are for testing at higher RPM's.
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| Author: | #69 [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
Dave. Soon I'll be contacting you for help. Lol |
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| Author: | Director [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
#69 wrote: Dave. Soon I'll be contacting you for help. Lol 
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| Author: | 944hal [ Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Proposed Super Cup Rule Changes for 2011 |
I spent a good part of last year chasing the overboost problem with my 951. 3" exhaust, no cat and flow through muffler and stock chips. Put in an aftermarket DME and it runs fine. |
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