Ok , CF dash which we make, stock dash cluster, stock rear bumper, rewired the car,fuse panel weighs a ton. The first thing to do is remove the undercoating,80lbs and we did weight it, heat gun and elbow grease, 2 hrs per wheel house and fender. floor and under the gas tank remove gas tank, once removed undercoating stays off. 6 hrs , What do you do when there's 12" snow on the ground. Helium in the tires help.

Spoken like a true competitor Frank.

In the interest of a closely matched field, I will make whatever adjustments are needed to even up the models as fairly as possible. The wild card, the drivers, can sometimes make it difficult to nail down quickly. This change in weight for SC came about for two reasons:

1) Hopefullly provide for more separation bewteen the laps times bewteen the two classes, somthing drivers from both classes have often asked for.

2) I have also approached many SC/SP3 drivers indicating one of the main reasons for switching from the PCA Stock classes was the lighter better handling car. So, making for an even greater disparity in this comparison the weight was further dropped the 50 lbs.

Up to this point no one voted against the proposed change in the poll, so it went forward.

Yep, no problem in getting to 2700 if I did all that. but we don't get 12 inches of snow in 5 years, so it might be a while

As I said, from here on, it's not going to be easy or cheap for a lot of people, diminishing returns and all. If you pay a shop to remove your electrical system and all the underseal you could be spending $4-5000 just to get to the new weight. Nobody said racing cheap, but 44Cup was at least a low cost of entry, at least for a Porsche.

I already tried the helium, but I found that it made the car talk funny.

Considering these late developments, will consider leaving the SC weights at the 2013 levels.

I have to agree with Jfoulds; whereas it's all POSSIBLE to get down to those weights, it definitely gets expensive.

Dave, I don't disagree with your goals one bit regarding the delta between sp2/3, and adjusting weights to equalize cars within the class. My concern is that 44Cup under your direction has become the defacto 944 series, you have done a great job, and I mean that, this the the best Porsche series, period, and to a large extent it has been billed as an affordable series. I like the idea of a 2500 lb S2, my question is, are we pricing ourselves out of the market, by making it difficult and expensive for new people to get down to competitive weights? I may not be right on this, and I am not voting against the weight change, just opening up the discussion, albeit a little late in the day (sorry about that!)

So here's a suggestion, and I know you're gonna hate it

Add weight to the other cars. Now I know you hate ballast, but there are many other ways, plus, a little ballast doesn't have to be bad.

1. Most cars have got fiberglass bonnets, sorry hoods! And most people still have the metal originals. Put it back on and you've added 25-30 lbs of "ballast" for free, and you can do it at home in an hour.

2. Most people use lightweight and expensive batteries. Instead of ballast, they can revert to a regular, and cheaper battery. If you like, you could allow it to be relocated to the passenger footwell, with a marine housing and suitably clamped, to keep the weight down low. There's an added 20 lbs of "ballast".

3. Many people do not use accusumps due to the weight. An accusump can add 10-20 lbs of "ballast", while providing the ability to pre-oil our engines prior to start up. A good thing on a race car that is not regularly started like a street car, and is very susceptible to the oil draining from the bearing surfaces. Not too expensive to put in, an added benefit of pre-oiling, and a way for classes with weight increases to meet the new weight without adding real ballast.

4. Real ballast, ok, now you're cringing, and I know the feeling. But consider this, the seat rail attachment points can handle an empty 40 lb passenger seat in a 70 mph crash and the seats don't leave the mounts. It is not hard, using hardware available from the local store, to devise a mounting to support for a 50lb weight attached through the seat rail area, especially if one uses fender washers, or a large underfloor doubler plate. It's cheap hardware. And that is the kind of weight we would be talking about at most, 50 lbs, which is cheap and easy to do. Anything more than that, and I start to cringe too!!

My point here is that these add up to at least 100 lbs, and most 968's and 944's could incorporate any/all of these at relatively little cost in time and money to achieve a weight increase, rather than making current cars strip out dashes, fuseboxes and rewiring, and putting your car on the lift and spending a week stripping underseal off.

Saying all that I am fortunate, and have a lift in my garage, and can get started, i'll do what I have to do, and I also understand the benefits of lightness. As I have said, I don't disagree with the 968 performance advantage and I think a couple of extra second delta in the sp2/3 times is a good idea. I'm just offering alternatives that may make it more attractive for newcomers looking to join 44Cup, whilst also bowing to your vastly superior knowledge and success in running 44 Cup. Just my 2 cents, I could be talking out of my backside, and will take no offense if you were to point that out! Again, I am definately not advocating doing nothing, you have decided that there is a "need" for adjustment, and I think you have a widespread agreement on that, I am simply offering a possible alternative suggestion on how to get there, that may or may not be palatable.

Truly thanks for your input, and others. Sometimes I may sound argumentative, but its just my may, not trying to discourage input from anyone interested in the class or series.

To your point about options to add weight, what I have learned about rules changes is most drivers in 944's prefer not to spend money to go faster, but worse than that they really don't like spending more money to go slower, especially if they spent money on those items to go faster. The options you list for adding weight without ballast would work, would do more to aggravate then improve, especially considering we just allowed them to go the other way.

I agree that requiring drivers to spend alot of money to lose 50 lbs in an S2 is not a good option either. If cars do in fact to do that, I would not like the change to drop the weight, certainly not just to change the sp2/3 delta. And maybe the current 2013 weights are enough to sway drivers to the class/ series anyway, and another 50 lbs doesn't matter all that much. Based on this latest round of discussions on the subject lead back to leave the weights alone, and just see if the 968's settle back into the field, unlike what happened at Daytona ( which is not on the schedule for 2014).

Lowering the weights was intended to be a good thing for SC cars. It certainly wasn't a critical must do change to correct some serious concern. Adding a hardship to drivers for a nonessential return would not be worth it. It has been another interesting exercise in the process of rules development.

I have asked PCA to put a hold on publishing the new 2014 SP3 weights which they make part of a larger set of tables of all the sp classes and have been anxious to release.

this is a very constructive discussion, with well thought out input from jfoulds.
DD obviously understands the quandry very well.
I leave it to your judgement as to what's best for the series, confident that it sounds like reason will prevail.

Jfoulds, you have hoist at home? then you just need get scraping that undercoating off,its free labour, I did, so did my 23 year daughter on her 944 Cup. The CF dash , bent a pc alumuinum and lay up CF there are books on that, unless your all thumbs. so where the $5k. wiring, you do it yourself, like most of the cup guys. Spend time scraping instead of the wordy post.

Dave ,most or all can done by the 944 cup/super cup owner, if you keep changing/ HOLDING UP RULES, PLEASE REMEMBER ,Sebring only around the corner. this back and forth is going drive peolpe away not towards CUP.I have been working on my car every weekend since we last saw each other. personal time is FREE. Rules, whatever they are need to be STABLE and Constant. not a moving target or the racers will Move.

Thanks for that advice Ernie. Some good ideas mixed in there. Please consider that the rules process takes time and some folks have more personal free time than others to devote to their racing hobby. And think of all those great Porsche or race shops that would be out of business if all of us did our own work.

I would not recommend anyone make changes to their cars til the rules are issued. If your car was legal at the end of this season 2013, your car will be legal for Sebring in Feb. if nothing on your car has changed. Will you have time to take advantage of every rule change before your first race, hopefully, but if your going to Sebring in 2 months, maybe not.

Apologies for any delays, but our rule making process happens this way each year. Every year there will be changes just the like the year before. Doing our best here to sort this stuff out. If thats drives folks away from the series, well, my best to them in finding what they want.