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Q & A -- Engine Components 
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Amen Dave! The weight and HP/Torque requirements mitigate a lot advantages of engine modification/selection. In this, as in most series, there will always be car owners willing and able to invest significant money and time in developing their cars within the rule set. I believe this is true in ITS and PCA. Fortunately because of the inclusive nature of 944Cup the rest of us always seem to have other cars to race with.


Fri May 21, 2010 5:29 am
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johntorg wrote:
Amen Dave! The weight and HP/Torque requirements mitigate a lot advantages of engine modification/selection. In this, as in most series, there will always be car owners willing and able to invest significant money and time in developing their cars within the rule set. I believe this is true in ITS and PCA. Fortunately because of the inclusive nature of 944Cup the rest of us always seem to have other cars to race with.


That's put well John, thanks.

The Cup has an advantage over PCA and SCCA when developing a ruleset for 944 racing. The Cup can fine tune the rules to a level not practical for other sanctioning bodies as we have essentially one model to govern over, the 944. PCA classes need to write the rules to cover numerous car models, the 911, 914, caymen, boxster, etc., and and even worse for SCCA IT that needs to deal with not only different models of Porsche, but an endless list of makes from Ford to Mercedes to Mazda, etc. They just dont have the luxury of making the level of model specific rules because of the unlimited variations of cars to deal in measuring the effect with each and every change on the many types of cars in a class. So, we have refined the PCA and SCCA rules over the 944 because we have the flexibilty and can use it to make 944 racing more competitive and fun.

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Fri May 21, 2010 7:59 am
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( Have not heard of any availbility or reliability issues with intake manifolds -- non consumable item.)

Just as I have never had availability or reliability issues with the standard 944 heads. The 951 head would be interesting as you could bolt it onto a completely stock 9.5 to 1 engine and run right up to or over the 144hp limit with no other mods. I ran one on an RS classed 2.5l car and eventually achieved 182hp at the rear wheels on a Wolf dyno using the matching manifold. The 82 to 83 rods are "sintered" style rods that look very similar to the 951 rods as well. I have used those, the cast rods and the supposedly "forged" rods and have found them to be all close in weight and seemingly equally reliable in an engine that stays under 7000rpm. Greg F.


Mon May 24, 2010 12:53 am
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GregF wrote:
( Have not heard of any availbility or reliability issues with intake manifolds -- non consumable item.)

Just as I have never had availability or reliability issues with the standard 944 heads. Greg F.



Back here in the East, have seen damaged 944 heads on numerous occasions..... never an intake manifold failure.

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Wed May 26, 2010 8:50 am
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So we can just circle around to the original question... if there are no reliability or supply problems with intake manifolds, there should be no legitimate reason to allow alternates. The heads do not fail...the valve, valve spring or retainer fails. A part of racing no matter what kind of car you run. So if there is no shortage of 2.5na heads why allow the 951 version? They have as much or more chance of failing as the NA head. I just want to let the rules evolve more slowly for the 944 Cup, as I have seen plenty of other one make/marque series fail because no one wanted to play "catch up" the whole time. I love the inclusive nature of the series and with the HP cap it should be easy to obtain parity between the prep levels. Greg


Wed May 26, 2010 6:18 pm
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GregF wrote:
I just want to let the rules evolve more slowly for the 944 Cup, as I have seen plenty of other one make/marque series fail because no one wanted to play "catch up" the whole time.


Seems a bit alarmist, if you ask me. After 9 years of being some of the largest entries in the places the Series race, I think the method of rule evolution has been proven.

Why does it seem those that resist the non-SCCA rule set are mostly NWC? What is unique about the geography or composite that makes people think the prep levels aren't equal? Are there some results or non-anecdotal evidence I can be pointed to that show the disparity?

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Wed May 26, 2010 7:59 pm
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For the first time in the series, Cup will be racing with SCCA here in the East hopefully attracting any ITS prepared 944's out there in the region and we'll get a better sense of where the ITS 944 car is compared to PCA cars currently.

Early in the series here in the EAST we had quite a few ITS 944's running with us and they dominated the podium. But over time those drivers have moved on to other hobbies and many of the cars have either been converted to PCA Stock (not needing a 4.11 or 4.30 R&P or more flexibility with wheels), or sit idle. So we dont have much current track data to say that the ITS cars are now disadvantaged vs their early domination in the series. If track results suggest the ITS car is now not competitive, then we'll make changes to correct.

On the stock 951 head, what are the disadvantages of allowing the use?

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Thu May 27, 2010 6:49 am
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Question is - have any of the damaged heads that have been seen been damaged by something other than

1) missed shifts
2) over-rev
3) valve spring problems
4) head gasket failure/overheating
5) Piston failure

Of these 5, I would think that only #4 could be possibly ascribed to head weakness issues. I would submit that in most cases, this is due to either mis/torquing the head or overheating the motor. Either way, I wouldn't think that the Turbo head would make a difference.

Couple that with the larger valves/ports and the likely ability to make more power than stock heads.

As Greg mentioned, there is no lack of availibility of NA heads. Doesn't seem to make sense to add a fairly large change to the motors when there isn't a current problem for most racers being able to make competitive power at reasonable levels of expenditure.


Thu May 27, 2010 2:20 pm
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MattMarks wrote:
Question is - have any of the damaged heads that have been seen been damaged by something other than ...
Couple that with the larger valves/ports and the likely ability to make more power than stock heads.


Matt, does this mean you want me to stop perfecting the process to counterfeit 944 part numbers onto 951 heads?


Thu May 27, 2010 5:53 pm
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The disadvantage of allowing the 951 head is that it will put an otherwise stock engine over the HP limit, needing to be "dialed back" via RPM or other means. This will make it a "must have" item, and due the the number of blown up 951 engines out there they are not as cheap or plentiful as the N/A heads. Greg F.


Fri May 28, 2010 11:25 am
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